the girl next door

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Posts by the girl next door

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  144

  Asylum Caravan

  by dubstepped in

  1. social
  2. current

  alright, so what is the deal with the thousands coming to the states right at election time seeking asylum?

  i'm not up on this, usually try not to be, but how can this not be manipulative?

  it's either manipulative in the size of the group and pressure that creates, or in where it started or who started this, etc.

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  the girl next door

  Waton,

  So you see it as the USA gifting a huge investment to a country that needs a lesson in lawlessness?

  No wonder these caravans keep coming.
• 
  144

  Asylum Caravan

  by dubstepped in

  1. social
  2. current

  alright, so what is the deal with the thousands coming to the states right at election time seeking asylum?

  i'm not up on this, usually try not to be, but how can this not be manipulative?

  it's either manipulative in the size of the group and pressure that creates, or in where it started or who started this, etc.

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  the girl next door

  I’m game.

  I think migration should be done legally. Asylum should be granted rarely or at least extremely selective. Like your country is being carpet bombed.

  I believe we created a problem with the dreamers act, and now we need to own it. I personally know some of these kids and their successes and can not imagine sending them “back to their country” when they would essentially be a foreigner in a foreign land.

  I believe “chain migrations” are fine. Families should get to be together. Do it legally. Melania did it with hers.

  I believe in the 14th amendment and birthright citizenship. It can not be changed by executive order.

  I don’t believe in separating children from parents and losing them at the border or in transport.

  I don’t believe the military is necessary in any way shape or form when the issue is migrants with little on their back or in their pockets.

  My mind could be changed on some of these. I’m listening.
• 
  144

  Asylum Caravan

  by dubstepped in

  1. social
  2. current

  alright, so what is the deal with the thousands coming to the states right at election time seeking asylum?

  i'm not up on this, usually try not to be, but how can this not be manipulative?

  it's either manipulative in the size of the group and pressure that creates, or in where it started or who started this, etc.

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  the girl next door

  I don’t have any data on that dubstepped.

  I live in Los Angeles. If I had to guess, I would say that they all get in and they come here.

  edited: WOW that sounded really bitchy.

  Our immigration system is a disaster. It can’t be fixed. Not even a wall will help.
• 
  144

  Asylum Caravan

  by dubstepped in

  1. social
  2. current

  alright, so what is the deal with the thousands coming to the states right at election time seeking asylum?

  i'm not up on this, usually try not to be, but how can this not be manipulative?

  it's either manipulative in the size of the group and pressure that creates, or in where it started or who started this, etc.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  the girl next door

  These caravans happen all the time and have for decades.

  This one is special because Trump is special. It is months away and dwindling in size. Immigration is a better topic at this mid term time for Trump than oh let’s say healthcare.

  Shepherd Smith from Foxtrump News said it best, relax it’s not an invasion, nobody is coming to get you, nothing to worry about.
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  101

  Who is the mediator for jehovahs witnesses?

  by atomant in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  lm getting conflicting advice.ls it the 144000 or jesus.l was always under the impression it was jesus.lf its the 144000 then when they pray the jw;s should be praying through the remnant not in jesus christs name but in the 144000;s name..

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  the girl next door

  I can’t speak to what most JWs think about their relationship with Jesus or exactly where they fit into the JW puzzle of mediatorship.

  Probably a lot of them if asked would flat out state that Jesus is their mediator. They would be wrong in the sense that that is not what WT teaches them.

  But many of them if not most must be clear by now that if they do not have a heavenly hope, they are just passengers to the whims of the governing body. In fact even remaining “anointed” not in Bethel are really just passengers. They have no say or affect on the direction of the organization. They too have a simple mandate, remain faithful to the governing body, even if what the governing body says doesn’t make sense, or lose their salvation only to die at Armageddon.

  For the “other sheep”,which lets be honest, is just about every publisher that sits in a KH, the only hope they have of salvation and surviving Armageddon is to do exactly as the governing body tells them.

  In essence, that really makes them implicit as Christ deniers, letting a cult dictate what relationship with Jesus they can or can not have despite what is written in their very own Bibles. Is it any wonder that millions reject the blood and body of Christ each year at the Memorial?

  JWs worship the governing body. Many have pieced this together and have promptly left, willing to lose family and friends, not all in the pursuit of real “truth”, but because they could no longer be a part of such blatant hypocrisy and sickening disregard for actual scripture.
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  101

  Who is the mediator for jehovahs witnesses?

  by atomant in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  lm getting conflicting advice.ls it the 144000 or jesus.l was always under the impression it was jesus.lf its the 144000 then when they pray the jw;s should be praying through the remnant not in jesus christs name but in the 144000;s name..

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  the girl next door

  Exhaustive proof of what I stated in post number 2 of this thread.
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  101

  Who is the mediator for jehovahs witnesses?

  by atomant in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  lm getting conflicting advice.ls it the 144000 or jesus.l was always under the impression it was jesus.lf its the 144000 then when they pray the jw;s should be praying through the remnant not in jesus christs name but in the 144000;s name..

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  the girl next door

  https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/mediator.php
  

  Religions do not volunteer their most offensive doctrines to newcomers, and Watchtower doctrine about the mediator generally is not presented to Bible Studies before baptism. The word mediator does not appear at all in What Does the Bible Really Teach?, a primary teaching aid of Jehovah's Witnesses. Yet Jesus role as mediator is an important and fundamental teaching of Christianity, directly discussed in the Bible. In the Reasoningbook the only mention of the mediator is in an unrelated manner that attempts to explain why we should not trust in Saints;

  "1 Tim. 2:5, JB: "There is only one God, and there is only one mediator between God and mankind, himself a man, Christ Jesus." (There is no allowance here for others to serve in the role of mediator for the members of Christ's congregation.)" Reasoning From the Scriptures? p.184 par. 7

  That is an ironic statement, since the Governing Body claim the Great Crowd benefit from Jesus role as mediator by being in contact with them.

  Watchtower hypocritically criticises the Catholic teaching that Saints can be “intercessors with God”, quoting 1 Timothy that there is only one mediator, yet the Watchtower teaching that the anointed mediate for the Great Crowd is in the same vein as this Catholic teaching.

  
  Watchtower 2014 Jun 1 p.15

  Jesus acts as both Mediator and High Priest. He is mediator to all mankind, with no intermediary between himself and humans. No man is our head; everyone answers directly to Christ.

  1 Corinthians 11:3 "But I want YOU to know that the head of every man is the Christ"

  The Watchtower teaches that only 144,000 people make up the New Covenant, and that Jesus is mediator for them alone. Of the billions of people that have ever lived the New Covenant is only open to 144,000 people, around 50,000 of which lived in the first half on the 1900's.

  By saying that Jehovah's Witnesses can only have a relationship with their Saviour if they are united with the Slave Class, Rutherford transferred tremendous power to himself and the following leaders of the Watchtower Organization, effectively creating the structure necessary for (and indicative of) a cult.
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  101

  Who is the mediator for jehovahs witnesses?

  by atomant in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  lm getting conflicting advice.ls it the 144000 or jesus.l was always under the impression it was jesus.lf its the 144000 then when they pray the jw;s should be praying through the remnant not in jesus christs name but in the 144000;s name..

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  the girl next door

  https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/mediator.php
  

  The Watchtower Society uses an eisegesis approach to arrive at doctrine; that is, it creates a doctrine and then manipulates scriptures to support it. This requires resorting to rhetorical fallacy to convince people what they are saying is true.

  A classic example of this is in a 1989 article explaining why Jesus is not mediator for all mankind. Following are some quotes;

  "Is Jesus the Mediator only for spirit-anointed Christians or for all mankind, since 1 Timothy 2:5, 6 speaks of him as the "mediator" who "gave himself a corresponding ransom for all"?
  
  The Bible contains both basic teachings and deep truths, which are solid food for study. ...
  
  To grasp what Paul is saying, we must first appreciate that the Bible sets out two destinies for faithful humans: (1) perfect life on a restored earthly paradise and (2) life in heaven for Christ's "little flock," numbering 144,000.
  
  ... The Greek word me.si'tes ...
  
  Clearly, then, the new covenant is not a loose arrangement open to all mankind. It is a carefully arranged legal provision involving God and anointed Christians.
  
  This should help us to understand 1 Timothy 2:5, 6. Here the reference to "mediator" was made after the five other occurrences of the word in letters written earlier. Hence, Timothy would have understood Jesus' mediatorship to be His legal role connected with the new covenant. ...
  
  Consequently, 1 Timothy 2:5, 6 is not using "mediator" in the broad sense common in many languages. It is not saying that Jesus is a mediator between God and all mankind. ... The apostle John referred to these at 1 John 2:2. But he indicated that others too will receive the benefit of Christ's sacrifice: "He is a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins, yet not for ours only but also for the whole world's."
  
  Those of 'the whole world' are all who will gain eternal life in a restored earthly paradise. Millions of such approved servants of God now have that earthly hope...." Watchtower 1989 Aug 15 pp.30-31

  The article starts saying this is solid food, indicating that if you don't agree with or understand the conclusion you are spiritually immature. It then shows that in order to understand the role of the Mediator another Watchtower doctrine must be believed. However no Scripture is given to back up the doctrine that humans will be resurrected onto earth, as there is no Scripture that makes such a statement. In fact, when Revelation 7 and 19 discusses the Great Crowd it places them in heaven "before" the throne. (See Paradise Earth and Great Crowd) The doctrine of the Mediator is built upon this shaky foundation.

  There follows lengthy inclusion of Greek definitions. This seems to be a diversionary attempt to give an air of authority to the article, as the discussion has no bearing on the existence of a secondary class or answering the original question.

  The article next attempts to add weight by inclusion of a commonly used Watchtower word - "clearly". This term is constantly used in Watchtower articles to reinforce a questionable point. The writer also claims to be privy to what "Timothy would have understood".

  Not content with limiting the mediatorship to only 144,000 people, the article goes on to add that the propitiatory sacrifice, which the Bible says is for the "whole world's" sins, only applies to those that gain life in the earthly paradise. Since the Watchtower teaches billions will die at Armageddon without any hope of a resurrection, it is excluding all worldly people alive from the value of the sacrifice as well.
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  101

  Who is the mediator for jehovahs witnesses?

  by atomant in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  lm getting conflicting advice.ls it the 144000 or jesus.l was always under the impression it was jesus.lf its the 144000 then when they pray the jw;s should be praying through the remnant not in jesus christs name but in the 144000;s name..

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  the girl next door

  https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/mediator.php
  

  Why does the Watchtower claim Jesus is only Mediator for the 144,000?

  The history of the development of this concept provides the answer. The Watchtower did not always teach this distasteful doctrine. Russell taught that the role of Mediator was extended to all mankind.

  Russell appears to have been thoroughly confused about the role of mediator. At times he felt that the 144,000 were not under the new covenant, at other times that they were under the New Covenant. When he taught that they were not under the New Covenant it followed that they did not need a mediator and that they (along with Jesus) played role of mediator for mankind.

  • Up to 1880 Russell taught that Jesus and the body of Christ (the 144,000) mediated for mankind, so the 144,000 were not included in the New Covenant.

  "“It should be remembered that we are in him heirs of glory, not under the “new covenant,” which is still future, but in the ‘Abrahamic covenant."” Zion's Watch Tower 1880 Feb p.72

  • Russell changed his mind and from 1881 to 1907 said the Church is included in the New Covenant

  "In a sense, the operation of the new covenant begins with the Gospel church and lifts us from the plane of degradation and sin-to a justified or reckoned perfect condition, from which we can go forward in the “narrow way,” becoming heirs of the first covenant."” Zion's Watch Tower 1881 Sep p.151

  • In 1907, Russell re-introduced his teaching that the “new covenant” is not made with the church at all.”

  "It was very inconsistent for us to quote in one breath the Apostle's statement that we are members of the Isaac Seed, the children of the old, original Covenant, and then in the next breath to class ourselves as beneficiaries of the New Covenant." Zion's Watch Tower 1909 Jan 1 p.12 (See also Zion's Watch Tower 1909 Apr 1 p.110)

  At least Russell believed Jesus role of mediator was for all mankind.

  "Jesus will occupy this mediatorial relationship between God and men until he shall have accomplished fully the intended work-until he shall have brought back into full harmony with God every creature who, being brought to a knowledge of his Creator and his righteous laws, shall desire to be and to do in complete harmony therewith."Studies in the Scriptures - The New Creation p.398

  To coincide with his moving the Great Crowd from heaven to earth Rutherford made an almost opposite claim that the New Covenant only applied to the 144,000. In 1934 Rutherford limited who Jesus could mediate for to just the 144,000 Spiritual Israelites.

  "Christ Jesus is the mediator of the new covenant toward his own brethren, that is to say, spiritual Israel, during the period of time God is taking out from the nations a people for his name."Watchtower 1934 Apr 1 p.104 Click for scan

  It was during this period that Rutherford introduced the concept that only 144,000 go to heaven. The Watchtower was forced into the position of limiting the new covenant to the 144,000 because the Bible states that those under the covenant receive a heavenly resurrection.

  Hebrews 10:16-22 "'This is the covenant that I shall covenant toward them after those days,' says Jehovah. 'I will put my laws in their hearts, and in their minds I shall write them,'" 17 [it says afterwards:] "And I shall by no means call their sins and their lawless deeds to mind anymore." 18 Now where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer an offering for sin. 19 Therefore, brothers, since we have boldness for the way of entry into the holy place by the blood of Jesus, 20 which he inaugurated for us as a new and living way through the curtain, that is, his flesh, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us approach with true hearts in the full assurance of faith, having had our hearts sprinkled from a wicked conscience and our bodies bathed with clean water.. . .

  1 Corinthians 15:51-57 "We shall not all fall asleep [in death], but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, during the last trumpet. … The sting producing death is sin, but the power for sin is the Law."

  Being determined to prove that only 144,000 go to heaven the Watchtower had no alternative than say that the New Covenant only applies to the 144,000. The Watchtower removed Jesus from being mankind's Mediator in order to support an inaccurate doctrine, that of an earthly resurrection. There is not a single scripture that discusses an earthly resurrection.

  The introduction of these teachings was a critical turning point for the Watchtower Society. Even as the number of Jehovah's Witnesses grew over 144,000 Rutherford could have continued with Russell's teaching, allowing additional followers to be part of a heavenly Great Crowd. By sending the Great Crowd to earth and allowing only Jehovah's Witnesses to be part of it Rutherford was able to introduce the concept of narrow salvation. Russell's idea that the majority of mankind were to survive Armageddon could be extinguished. Salvation became dependant solely on belonging to the Watchtower Society. This use of control has continued ever since.

  From that time forward the leaders of the Watchtower Society, as part of Spiritual Israel, could demand unquestioning obedience from the secondary class of other sheep.

  "All of this should impress upon the minds of the other sheep why the Christian Greek Scriptures focus so much attention on Christ and his anointed brothers and their central role in the outworking of Jehovah's purposes. The other sheep therefore consider it a privilege to support in every way possible the anointed slave class while awaiting "the revealing of the sons of God" at Armageddon and during the Millennium. They can look forward to being "set free from enslavement to corruption and have the glorious freedom of the children of God."-Romans 8:19-21." Watchtower2002 Feb 1 p. 23

  "But that does not necessarily mean that they are marked for survival. They must be marked by the 'man with the secretary's inkhorn.' The facts show that "the faithful and discreet slave" class is doing that marking work today.-Matthew 24:45-47. All who want to be marked as having God's approval must accept the instruction that Jehovah is providing through that "slave" class and become true worshipers of Jehovah." Survival into a New Earth p.96

  The resultant conclusion of Watchtower doctrine is that the Governing Body have elevated their role to that of mediators themselves.

  "With Christ they make up the agency by means of which blessings will be extended to all other obedient ones among mankind. Appreciation of this is a key to understanding the Bible." Survival into a New Earth p. 65

  "Being made kings and priests by reason of the new covenant that he mediated, they will share in administering the blessings of Jesus' sacrifice and of his Kingdom rule to all the nations of the earth. Christ's mediatorship, having accomplished its purpose by bringing "the Israel of God" into this position, thus results in benefits and blessings to all mankind." Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 2p.363 Mediator
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  101

  Who is the mediator for jehovahs witnesses?

  by atomant in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  lm getting conflicting advice.ls it the 144000 or jesus.l was always under the impression it was jesus.lf its the 144000 then when they pray the jw;s should be praying through the remnant not in jesus christs name but in the 144000;s name..

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  the girl next door

  https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/mediator.php
  

  The Watchtower contains an inconsistent view of the mediator. Christians generally believe that Jesus sacrifice for forgiveness of sins is offered to all mankind, and comes from his role as both Mediator and High Priest of the New Covenant. However the Watchtower view is quite unique in that it separates Jesus role for different classes;

  • Mediator only for the 144,000
  • High Priest on behalf of all

  "He mediates the new covenant between God and those taken into the new covenant, the congregation of spiritual Israel. The total number of those who are finally and permanently sealed is revealed in Revelation 7:4-8 as 144,000." Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 2 p.362 Mediator

  The Watchtower states that whilst Jesus is mediator for 144,000 only, those not under the new covenant will be blessed by Jesus through his role as their High Priest.

  "Blessings to Mankind in General. While Jesus' mediatorship operates solely toward those in the new covenant, he is also God's High Priest and the Seed of Abraham. In fulfilling his duties in these latter two positions, he will bring blessings to others of mankind, for all the nations are to be blessed by means of Abraham's seed." Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 2p.362 Mediator

  "Christ does not act as Mediator of the new covenant toward them, yet they benefit from this covenant through the work of God's Kingdom. Christ still acts toward them, however, as High Priest, through whom Jehovah can and does apply the ransom to the extent of their now being declared righteous as God's friends. (Compare James 2:23.)" Watchtower 1991 Feb 15 p.18

  There is no Scriptural precedent to support the idea that the Mediator can be for a different group than that of the High Priest, or that the High Priest atoned for people not under covenant.

  If the 144,000 are supposed to prefigure the kings and priests and also prefigure the entire nation of spiritual Israel, then who are they to rule?

  The Watchtower parallels the Great Crowd with the Alien residents under the Law covenant.

  "Since a number of these faithful foreigners, or alien residents, are viewed as foreshadowing the great crowd today, their situation is of interest to us.

  Such ones were proselytes, dedicated worshipers of Jehovah under the Mosaic Law who were separated from the nations along with the Israelites. (Leviticus 24:22) They offered sacrifices, kept clear of false worship, and abstained from blood, just as the Israelites did." Watchtower 1995 Jul 1 p.17 "The Israel of God" and the "Great Crowd"

  As the Great Crowd are said to be foreshadowed by the alien resident then it follows that the Great Crowd are included in the New Covenant in the same way alien residents were included in the Law Covenant.